First to pick up the gauntlet is Gayle: “Experiencing ‘the stigma’ for the last 20 years, like you, I am applying for permanent employment. My background, skills, and experience are superior, and my self-employment shows creativity, flexibility, dedication, quality of service [typical of] small business owners, [yet] it doesn't translate to HR people. As to how the ‘problem’ is handled, [I’m told] the recruiter or HR person has to ‘defend’ the candidate, showing progressive responsibilities/salary throughout a career; they look for familiar employer names, job titles, and career milestones that can be followed up. Yes, it can all add up to, you guessed it, ‘lost in translation’ issues!”
‘damaged’ somehow. We know differently, but that doesn't change the system.”
Sarah jumps back in: “Dietrich, thank you so much for sharing your journey, instructive thoughts, and positive slant on your varied experience. One recruiter noted my resumé was ‘schizophrenic.’ Others see variety and accuse me of being ‘easily bored’ or ‘never satisfied’. But I relish a company for the long term, right through retirement. So we target our desires. Sounds like you have done just that.”
From an anonymous HR group, this chilling appraisal: “A true ‘A player’ would not be unemployed for long. If unemployed long-term, they are not be a good performer. It's much safer to hire somebody away from a competitor. Hiring away from a competitor is seen as a ‘win’ by a recruiter, while hiring the unemployed person is a ‘risk.’”
Harry: “I agree, forming your experience into a coherent and purposed whole is more honest than a chronological listing. You discover things about yourself, like me a way better consultant/troubleshooter than a [regular] employee.
could not agree more. I know my purpose and passion will come. In the time I have left, I don't want to be a hamster on a wheel.”
Scott, conclusively: “I wish I could change the way employers view unemployed candidates. I assure you all that if I find that
outlet to advocate, I will pursue it to the fullest extent possible.”
Editor: This honest, intense dialogue continues next week as we take on the HR system, which doesn’t 'get' the long-term unemployed.
Last week, in the first of a 4-part series, excerpts from an online conversation, extending over 60 days and 134 respondents, depicted the shared struggle of six million of us long-term unemployed and self-employed across the USA. We face obstacles to employment that stigmatize us. This week, in Part 2, we take on the flawed HR system.
One employer posts a job and 300 apply in 15 minutes. With that many applicants, HR blindly and blithely cuts any with employment gaps. Their Want Ads are blunt: “Must be currently employed.” And“Unemployed need not apply.”
Frank, an accountant who lost his job in 2008, counters a perception popularized by one candidate for President, that out-of-work people are lazy or want to live off the system. “I'll take a job over unemployment any day, he says. “I just couldn't get one.”
Gayle, speaking for many: “The jobless is not a protected group under federal law. Though [such] discrimination is not age-specific, it devastates older workers, because unemployment is generally longer for older workers.”
Kevin: “In NJ, OR and DC, it is unlawful for an employer to refuse an applicant currently unemployed.”
Harry: “The question here isn't about spurious stigmata; it's about hiring cookie-cutter drones who know how to find the coffee room, or resourceful survivors who can think on their feet and work wonders with limited resources.”
Lorraine tackles the prevailing HR logic: “If someone is leaving another job, likely there are issues; a job ‘hopper’ will leave in two years. Do HR people understand what ‘right talent’ looks like, since they have never done the job or supervised anyone performing at that level? I think not.”
Patricia piles on: “Recycling the same talent is a going-out-of-business strategy. Can HR be reeducated to see the advantages of hiring self-employed talent as a calculated risk?”
Pamela: “LOL, Harry. I used to be in that game. Now, three years after I jumped ship, I'm with you. I am so ‘undomesticated’ I could not stay in a ‘Real Job.’ The author's and consultant's life is the only one for me!”
not think of the long-term unemployed as risks and potential liabilities, but as reliable assets with proven track records who can add value to any organization. I'd like someone in HR define the actual ‘risk’ in term of data and dollars.
Peter: “Steve, learn to play down the extent of your knowledge, so they can glimpse your personality, too.”
Harry: “Sad when you have to hide your knowledge/experience to ‘qualify’for a job requiring those attributes.”
overqualified, then share your desire to contribute your experience to help their bottom line.”
Peter: In South Africa anyone new in a position serves three months’probation [a test drive, after which] the appointment automatically becomes permanent.
Installment three, next week, considers solutions to the stigmatization of the long-term un/under/self-employed.
Back to Sarah, who started this whole online discussion three months ago: “The hiring process has lost the human touch and sensibilities that could improve hiring for all parties involved. Yet it is not fair to demonize them. Myriad issues are at play in this economy and job market. We need a shift in the view of the unemployed/self-employed by the companies themselves, managers, leadership, our peers, elected officials, workforce non-profits and others. Let us ‘set the record straight’ about the risk & reward of hiring from this segment.”
Joni: “For those who’ve owned your own business, seek after teaching jobs, especially for continuing or adult education. The best teachers are those who can offer both theoretical and practical learning.”
abound [note Steve from last week]. That said, if government services reduce [under a new President], is there an opportunity for us to step into the service vacuum? I wonder who would start a business? What would we do? Could those regionally nearby come together, brainstorm a business, use a crowd funding website, and launch viable businesses together? What's inspiring is that we're not letting a stigma define us.”
Jokesters quip about inventing the Chia Pet, Snuggly, other out-of-the-box ideas for the next big thing.
To get help for ourselves and to get our message across to more people, Scott refers our discussion group other online boards of HR people and to the Workforce Investment Board WIB), a private-sector advisory and advocacy group whose state education policies and economic development system help small businesses.
This just in from an HR Director: “Being unemployed definitely has a stigma attached to it, but we need to look at people individually and encourage our managers to do the same. As also stated above, just because someone is employed doesn't
necessarily mean they are a good employee.”
And from a talent management consultant: “Hiring decisions are made with surprisingly sparse objective criteria. What gets missed in most hiring processes are tools that assess individual values and cultural fit with the organization—factors far
more important than long-term unemployment in a horrific recession. My organization utilizes those tools along with the standard considerations for skill set and employment history to develop a custom behavioral interview and evaluation score sheet for each individual that dramatically increases access to objective factors for the decision.”
Wow, some folks in HR are listening, after all. Perhaps other hiring managers or employment agencies are listening in to this highly charged and nuanced online discussion. Collectively, we hope some will drop their assumptions, break the mold and hire
one of us Untouchables, then report on their ‘hiring success’ here in LinkedIn, in the MTT, and elsewhere. To encourage that, I invite you and your employer to join the conversation next week for Part 4 in this MTT exclusive.
Pamela: “We need to take the responsibility on ourselves to document our stories, including the successes. I am going to blog on this topic myself.” [Me too!]
David: “Several HR people ask me why I would want to be an employee after being the boss [self-employed]; the person who would manage also shows great concern about managing someone used to being a boss.”
Scott: “Ana, you’d think so. But some who have gone from the entrepreneurial world (or small business) to the corporate world have challenges. When you are ‘master of your own destiny’ after being self-employed, it can be hard to accept ‘orders’ from someone else. Any thoughts on that?”
Shirley: “Were it not for the Recession, most of us would not be in this boat. Or [am I] making excuses?
Scott: “I’d avoid leveraging the Recession as an excuse. While [true], there is also a degree of personal responsibility that employers look for. Discuss your job search strategy, what
you've learned from this Recession.”
Scott: “Are you making the case that the stigma we feel is not imposed upon the unemployed
or self-employed by the world, but rather a manifestation of our own fears and lack of confidence?”
Ashfaque: “Yes, stigma grows with the society's pressure (especially family, relatives and friends), and negative attitudes. At some stage, a person feels himself or herself valueless and a burden on society.”
from a career coach, or a trained counselor, if the circumstances are more severe. But stigma exists. It's almost a discriminatory attitude towards the unemployed. Hiring managers consider the unemployed troublesome. Here are a few reasons: (1) the unemployed are desperate and will leave the position they’ve been hired for greener pastures; (2) the unemployed have lost competitive skills; (3) if the unemployed were a true ‘A-gamer,’ they would have secured employment, [or] something [is] wrong with them. Hiring managers make [many such] assumptions about the unemployed that simply are not true. Not engaging the unemployed reduces their talent pool.”
Scott: “Ana, absolutely! Feel free to share it! We want to spread the word!”
Dietrich: FYI, I did print out this whole LinkedIn discussion; it takes up 16,391 words across 31 pages to date. The challenge is how to chop it up into blog-worthy excerpts that connect. Scott, Sarah, Cathleen, Ana, Harry, Pam, et. al, you have carried us along very well. Who knew this conversation would last this long?
Scott: Dietrich, no one imagined this would go on for as long as it has! 31 pages is staggering, and as I scroll back to review the conversation, I'm reminded of how important this issue really is. I appreciate your commitment to understanding the messaging behind this conversation, and I also appreciate your effort to parse this down into packets that can be delivered to the masses.
You ‘masses’ in Middleton and Madison, if you want to meet others in the same boat, and get help for your job search, come to the Madison Area Job Transition group; 1st and 3rd Saturdays of the month. I will be re-presenting “stigma” live, on December 1.